Gabcast! Boxing Along the Beltway #207 - Patriot Center Recap!
"The Fight Doctor" Jerome Spears and I recap an exciting and surprising night from the George Mason University Patriot Center in Fairfax, VA!
A postscript to the wrap-up. The harshest critic after the bout may have been Jimmy Lange's father, who said that his son "stunk up the joint" tonight. Mr. Lange was asking for a rematch which, if it happens, would be in Houston, TX, Shields's hometown.
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53 comments:
Wow, that was some night! When the ring lights went out in the ninth round, my first thought was "Fan Man is back." (Probably much of that thought was brought on by Riddick Bowe sitting ringside.)
But just like the infamous parachute interruption during Holyfield vs. Bowe II, last night's incident absolutely reversed the momentum of the fight and benefitted the underdog.
In the Fan Man fight, Holyfield seemed to be running out of gas right before the mid-round interuption. It was the same last night. While I gave the first two rounds to Shields, I thought Lange was dominent through the rest and saw Shields quickly running out of steam.
Then the break came, more than five minutes. Like Holyfield, Shields had time to rest and refocus, and came out a new man.
But I was surprised by the margin. By the judge's scoring, Shields would have won, even without this incredibly impressive 11th round. (There were two knockdowns, and I could understand a judge scoring it 10-7, as Shields was just so dominant.)
But I gave the final round to Lange, and just didn't see the four point margin that the judges did.
I did have a quibble with ref Richard Steele waiting as long as he did to stop the fight after the lights went out. It should have been stopped immediately, as it could have gotten dangerous real fast. (In fact during the news conference, Shields noted that he dropped his hands and backed off as soon as the lights went out, and paid for it when Lange kept punching until the ref called break.)
So like Lange's rematch with Fonatine Cabell, it should not have come to that, but the rematch will play out like it should. And I would not want to be in the opposing corner for Lange's next fight.
How about that comment from papa Lang! But what a piece of garbage to say that about your son or at the very least about the fighter you manage. The boxing world will be such a better place in this area when Jimmy retires and takes papa with him. Good riddance
Agreed. It's one thing to be kicked while you're down by strangers on a blog, but to be kicked while you're down by your own father, wow.
How could a father not be proud of a guy who demonstrated supreme guts and courage just to go the distance. Jimmy can be hold his head high for giving it all he had.
I told people Jimmy Lange would lose this fight. Check my earlier posts. People slept on Chase Shields, including Jimmy, and they and he, paid for it.
Quick question: Does Chase Shields also do MMA?? I think I heard of a MMA fighter named Chase Shields
After rereading my previous comment, I'm not sure why the name "Richard Steele" was in my head, as the ref who was presiding when the lights went out was Joe Cooper.
To say Richard steele and Joe Cooper in the same breath is a sin.
Pre Mantis Joe said...
Chauncy Flowers won over Lil Chop Chop Corly but 98% of crowd thought Corly won.
Rock Davis won over Slim Perkins.
Joel Young won a close one over Kevin Revirss.
Train Grant won a decision over Nate Davis.
Sheed Floyd won over Joey Rector
Very good bouts-well worth the money. Kevin Revires did not perform up 2 expectations. Nice crowd following but somewhat disapointed in his holding tactics. He will be back though, ver nice young man with plenty of smarts. Rector needs more endurance to say the least.
Supreme Defense was nothing like its name, he was hit with ever shot that oppanent threw. I mean literally every shot. perhaps need a changing of name thats more fitting. (punching bag or mit head)
Very exciting nite though,need a biiger venue for Gold gloves, should be at Equestion Center on DC Amory. Courtland Perkings was given such a gift that his corner was even emmbarrassed by the desision. He aint even from here, he from Glen Burnie or further.
Guy there selling tapes for 25.00 plus postage. I personally think that too much for a 3 rder bout-amateur at that. but if peeple pay-so be it. Boss coming-see you guys later-perhaps next week. take care and peace with u all.
There is nothing wrong with what is dad said, John would do anything for Jimmy. We are talking boxing here right? Jimmy was off he was a little flat jabs and punches where not what they should have been, would he have won if the lights did not go off? I think he would have, Chase was losing wind fast. But Jimmy still looked a little off.
John Lange and everybody else in the Lange camp knows what Jimmy needs to do to get where he needs to be, not working the jab and punch like he should would make him flat and stunk. So to say it’s wrong to kick Jimmy when he is down by his dad, think what you want John knows how to handle his son,This is not preschool and a pat on the head saying you done well son. Jimmy knows what he needs to do.
Eddy P
Sounds like it was a very good card. Gary thanks for the updates.
I have been one in the past to be critical when the situation warrants it. What Mr. Lange said is not all that bad. Sometimes you need to have those type of conversations or make those types of comments.
I know at that moment a pick me up type of comment may have been the right one to make, but that comment is only bad if it gets taken negatively by the person it was for.
Was he kicking him when he was down? NOPE he was being honest. Jimmy will be the first one to tell you that it wasn't his night.
I also owe a great apology to Chase Shields. He was better than I thought he was.
A good night of fights. Kudos to ICE promotions and JD for a great night.
Those comments were brutal but honest.From what I know of Lange,his father and him have a very honest relationship.I do not think Mr Lange was being cruel and I do not think Jimmy wants things candy coated.Jimmy certainty did not look himself.
The lights???CRAZY????I do believe that made a difference because momentum favored Lange in a big way at that point.Shields could hardly get a breath and Jimmy was coming on.5-10 minutes is a long time to recover.
Congrats to Shields,I was rooting for him becuse I always root for the underdog.
-T.Caap
We know which fights were tough and which ones were not.Give the fighters and their managers kudos for taking the fights.The Russian
looked unbelievable and I think we will see him in lights before to long.The Farmer Orji fight was a suprise but thats why this sport is so exciting one punch can turn everything around (Bam )
just like that.Farmer was fine when the referee stoped it .I think
the commission was just a little over protective in this case and the fans showed their dissaproval
very loudly.Would make a very nice
rematch.
Jargal looked strong but didn't have mutch of a fan base there.
The boy from haymarket looked like a good amateure but nothing more.I do hear that he is very tough but that will only get you so far in this busniess.once you get to a certain level and the competition picks up the tough guys usually just get beat up.
The commission deserves a round of applause for how they handled
certain situations saturdsy night.
I for one would not want to be in
their position and have to make
decisions that they have to make.
The Lange , Chase/ Farmer,Orji/
Kovalev,Ambang/ bouts were very entertaining and I would pay to see these fighters again.
All in all a good night of boxing.
All the bullcrap about Johmmy Lange is exactly that bullcrap.
Anybody should realize that this man is the driving force behind
every patriot center show and he does this for his son .If he thinks his son had a lackluster performance after all the time and money he has put in it then he certainly has the right to say it.This man loves his son more than any of you blog beaters are capable of realizing.
Lets not bash the biggest show in town or he might just decide not to hold it around here anymore.
Alan Dean
I hope that the Patriot Center compen$ate$ the Langes big time when it comes time to negotiate the site fee for their next show. (Which despite Johnny's Houston comments, I expect it to be the Patriot Center hosting Lange/Shields II.)
While the lighting fiasco was surely was an accident, it still cost Jimmy dearly in a pure business sense. (I'm with the majority who saw Shields in major trouble right before the halftime break.)
Now instead of a possible marquee battle with John Duddy, Jimmy has to wade through this sticky rematch mess just to prove that he's even relevant.
Site Fee? Site Fee? There is no Site Fee from The Patriot Center. The Langes do it the old fashioned way, they sell tickets and they sell sponsorships and they rent the building and pay associated expenses which turns out to be a huge amount of money. I don't know how they make it work really, but they keep coming back so they must be making some money or at the very least, losing a manageable amount. It's a shame that Virginia doesn't have a venue like Maryland has in The Showplace that is much less expensive and about half the size of The Patriot Center. If Northern Virginia had a facility like that, or something that held between 3,000 and 5,000 they would really be on to something with these Lange bouts. There are always lots of empty seats in the Patriot Center and they pay them an arm, a leg, and another arm. Maybe they should consider a venue change. Just a thought.
Chase has had some MMA training and does plan to do MMA, but as far as I know, he hasnt had a pro match yet.
I dont really see how this rematch can be in Houston, they both will make much more money in VA. In Houston, there will be only 1500 ppl to show up at a ballroom to see this. Put the rematch at Patriot Center again..
RingsideMike
Yes, by "site fee" I meant what the Langes pay in Patriot Center rental. There is no hotel or casino business attached, so of course the Patriot Center doesn't put up anything.
But I still think that the rental should be adjusted for the next Lange event. The Langes have paid an awful lot of rental over the last ten or so cards, and the Patriot Center's screw-up on Saturday cost the Langes dearly.
As far as a venue change in this area, I don't see that happening. As the previous poster observed, there just isn't a "Showplace Arena-like" venue in Northern VA. And moving a Lange fight into DC or MD would be disasterous for the box office take.
For all its faults, people (including the Langes)like the Patriot Center, are comfortable in the Patriot Center and have had (mostly) good experiences there. It's just that last week's FUBAR was collossal, and deserves more than an apology to remedy.
Which lights went out on Saturday night? I was not there. Was it the main lighting throughout the entire arena or was it the lighting above the ring? If it was the lighting above the ring, that is provided by the promoter and not the Patriot Center. If it was the house lighting, then that is the Patriot Center's problem. Either way, I know that the Lange's are spending HUGE money for the Patriot Center and have not gotten any type of discount from what I am aware of. The DuBurns Arena would be perfect, it holds about 2,000 and Jimmy will draw well in Baltimore. The Showplace is larger but for some reason never draws any type of crowd. I would stay away from there. DC, I guess it would just be The Armory, but Jimmy will draw there too I think. And all of those places have to be 50 to 80% less than The Patriot Center. Any other suggestions for a venue? Help these guys out. Love em or hate em they are putting on the biggest shows in the area.
Dont know about that Jake Smith has a whopper on the 20th. Card of the year looks like to me.
If I had a "Get Out Of Rain Free" card there would be the Carter Baron amphitheater in DC, where they have the free Shakespeare in the summer.
Obviously, that's a huge "if." For a summer show, outside under the lights would be great, and it's one of the few places in DC where parking would not be a problem.
But the catch, of course, would be rain. With as many out-of-towners as a full boxing card would mandate, not to mention the costs of setting up and striking the ring, lighting, etc., a rain date really wouldn't be feasable.
Isn't there some sports complex in Loudoun County where they have soccer, hockey and even occasional roller derby? I wonder what the seating capacity would be there. (I've seen the DC RollerGirls there, but can't remember exactly where it was.)
While the Patriot Center may or may not get a portion of gate sales in addition to the rental, the fact still remains that the hard costs to operate the space are not that much different between a full house and a 3,000-6,000 boxing crowd. So the Langes are still pretty much paying for the empty seats, whether they are sold or not.
One final question. Is it imperative that boxing be staged in the round? I don't recall ever having seen a precineum (sp?)stage used for boxing, but that would open up a whole slew of options if considered. (Digital, have you ever seen a boxing card that wasn't in the round?)
The Lincoln Theatre cards are not in the round. The ring is on the stage and, except for the few seats on the stage, everyone else is looking straight ahead towards the ring.
Yes, by "site fee" I meant what the Langes pay in Patriot Center rental. There is no hotel or casino business attached, so of course the Patriot Center doesn't put up anything.
At the press conference Chase Don't think it's just Patriot Center...
Shields really applauded and appreciated and was surprised by how the Lange's treated him, his expecting wife and camp first class all the way.
We are so fortunate to have boxing and the boxers Jimmy provides the stage to who enjoy the fruits of the Lange dream. in such a venue not just in VA, but in this BATB area in the last few years.
I get tired of people razing on the Langes. They do it. They do it well. I have been in a lot of the "it could be here and should have been there", and many many times the whole level of everything about the boxing show rarely even scratches to the heart & soul the Lange's put into it.
Linda,
You're missing my point. The Langes put a lot of money in to their shows and God Bless 'em for it. There is no jealousy from anyone I know of the Langes by any of the promoters in MD or VA. Maybe some people feel they have been screwed by them but unfortunately this is boxing and those things happen. They put on first class shows, no doubt about it with Jimmy Lange in the Main Event and Johnny Lange doing what he does which is selling an incredible amount of tickets and sponsorship to make the whole thing work. He does things that NOBODY else in boxing in the entire USA does when it comes to ticket sales. My point was that it is a shame there is not a 2,000 to 5,000 seat facility in Northern VA that they could use. They could legitimately sell it out. 3,500 people in a place that holds 4,000 sure would be a whole lot more electric than 4,000 people in a 10,000 seat facility. And, if such a facility existed, they could save a TON of money on the shows in expenses alone, thus enabling them to continue doing those great shows. People are saying what they are saying out of respect and in a sense of being helpful, not "razing" on them.
Did she really say this:
"I have been in a lot of the "it could be here and should have been there", and many many times the whole level of everything about the boxing show rarely even scratches to the heart & soul the Lange's put into it."
She just shit on every other promotion out there! Damn Linda! Not 2 bright are u?
As far as Pro vs. Am scoring: My take on it is in the big leagues they usually clarify "an emphasis on clean, effective punching". Calzaghe and Malignaggi are good examples of fighters who lacked concussive force but managed to do well in pros. But I always agreed with the Max Kellerman view of which fighter would you have rather been?
Okay, I agree about the venue.
Yes, I did say that. Trust me, I didn't shit on any promoters. I have been to fights that didn't compare. I am sure you, fans, and everyone that reads BATB have been to some of these fights.
I am talking about the heart that is put into it. In this area we are blessed with promoters that shine, because of the proverbial blood sweat and tears and sometimes great cost to themselves they give to produce phenomenal shows that not only keeps boxing alive and kicking, but to elevate to international recognition.
My beef is with people always nitpicking promoters, esp. the Langes to death, when they put so much on the line.
Surely as every picture u take isn't a masterpiece every fight is not Arturo Gatti Mickey Ward or Corralles Castillo every card cant be held at a huge arena. International event u say? A little strech no?
About the Langes people give them crap bc Jonnie is a slimeball and Jimmy is a journeyman talent with some money behind him amd they sell him like hes a world champ. not in this lifetime.
True that, Not talking about shows being cookie cutter...International...because of the shows local promoters put on provides opportunities to fight and sometimes win in countries like Germany, etc. I thought some local promoters have produced fights out of Country, Wanda Bruce? Not sure.
Johnny,why don't you try lacing them up once before you shit on your son.In this case,the apple has fallen into a different world than the tree.Jimmy Lange has more balls than you could even think of having.He has given everything he has,every time I have seen him.That is a tribute to him,and the respect he has for the sport.A real man he is.You spoiled prick."he stunk the place up" is evidence of the type of,not only manager,but father you are.
Gary,I would love to here Jimmys take on the fight and the post fight comments.Bet you would not here excuses(even thogh there are some valid ones)But that is just the type of guy he is.surprising,given his role model,Johnny.Get that interview DIG.
Here we go again with the anoymous Lange-haters. If all it took was a little money to sell a fighter, then investers would be coming out of the woodwork, which obviously isn't the case.
You can quibble about the ticket sales (the announced gate was a little over 5,000) all you want. But name me any other fighter near Jimmy's ranking who could even crack the four-digits in attendance on a regular basis.
It's more than the money. It's more than the undercards. It is Jimmy Lange and the Lange operation (which includes Jackie Kalen and the Brotman guys.) They have had something like 10 Patriot Center shows now.
Who else does that, especially with no casino revenue to sweeten the pot and attract A-List named talent?
Yeah - but don't forget who got your foot in the door my little sparrow! I went to bat for you, got you in there, and you never call me now? What's up with that?You know I know you know. And yes, Johnny Lange is a ticket selling machine. But I do take a slight issue with you in one regard, but bear with me, it makes Johnny Lange's ticket sales that much more impressive. The general public is not really that much more attracted to a Jimmy Lange fight than they are any other fighter in the area. BUT, they can draw 3,000 to 5,000 and significant sponsorship money for one reason, and one reason only. And no it's not Jimmy's star power. And no, it's not Brotman Winter and Fried who are really a huge waste of money. And no, it's not Jackie Kallen (not Kalen, but that's how I know it's you my friend) as sweet as she may be. And no, it's not because it's at The Patriot Center. And no, it's not because Discombobulating Jones is the ring announcer, even as good as he is (and he never calls me anymore). It's because The Old Man himself, old Johnny Boy Lange, is an old school hustler and earner nonpariel. The man knows all the angles and other angles that haven't even been invented yet, and he knows how to make a dollar out of 15 cent. He's got his ways, and yes he pisses a lot of people off and everybody in boxing around here has an opinion about him, but that old fucker can sell, sell, sell. HE's the one that's selling all the tickets out of his hand. People aren't really beating down his door to see Jimmy fight, Johnny has to work to sell the tickets. If they sell 4,000 tickets total, Johnny sold 3,000 of them plus sponsorship. Love him or hate him, that toothless SOB is one of a kind and knows how to sell some tickets to a boxing show. The second best guy around is so far behind Old Man Johnny Lange that he may as well not even be in the race. I still don't like that old fucker though, as talented a salesman as he is.
If you are referring to me. I didn't make the post you are citing. Did make all the ones with my name. Maybe you made it so you could slide in the following spewing the usual venom. Who knows or cares?
nope, not you Linda and Im not spewing any venom. My man knows who he is and Im not really getting on him just ribbing him a bit.
I was referring to the anonymous post who spelled Jackie Kallen's name Jackie Kalen just like he always pronounces it - KAY - LEN.
Ticket sales were not even close to five thousand.I estimated around 2500. promoters as well as gary on this site always swell their nuts up and over estimate the amount of people at these events.I guess to try to look more sucessful.Plus I think theres a little ego polishing going on here.C-mon guys keep it real.
I agree the crowd was far less than what was reported, but I think Gary just reports the "official" attendance number stated.
I would be surprised if there were more than 2,000 people there.
Boy boy boy people here in beltway really dont like that bold headed man name Johnny.
Me too I hate that man.
He loves for you to hate him.
Mr Langes philosophies and theories on how to promote boxing are working ok but believe me he puts alot of work in it and looses alot of money. If you hate him you are at least thinking about him and thats what he wants.
And as for the reported Attendance at the show everybody knows there were less than two thousand people there and Gary as well as everybody else has eyes and knows how to count.Get real
It's not my job to estimate the crowd. As Alec said, I can only report what the attendance is. ICE Promotions is one of the few organizations that actually gives an attendance figure.
Do I think there were 5,000 people in attendance? No way! But legally and ethically, I can't say that in a report. Unlike most bloggers, I try to adhere to journalistic ethics.
A possible summer venue. I have never been there and I am not sure how big it is, but The wolf trap concert area, could be a nice out door venue, not far from where they fight out of!
I thought about Wolf Trap as well. It has all the covered seating they'd need, and the possibilty of lawn picnics would add another dimension to make it a unique boxing experience.
But it's probably a lot easier said than done. For one, they are pretty solidly booked in the summer. (I assume you're talking about the Filene Center, not the Barnes, which would be way too small.)
Also, as the country's only "National Park for the Performing Arts," rental for a sporting event may not even be possible.
I can only imagine the complications that having to go through the National Park Service (or any other federal agency) would bring on.
But outdoor summer card with a rain contingency would be an awful lot of fun, no doubt.
particularly when the guy that would be booking it is a recorded felon.
Mama was, so what? Isnt every body in boxing a felon?
i really wish some of these "anonomous" comments had names to go with them.,....
PLange
u put your name u r a target. there r only a few people that sign there names and people turn on them even though those people speak the truth. u know why? cause people r stupid!
late to the conversation . . .
Great, action-packed card at the Patriot Center. The loss by Farmer was a stunner. Just got clipped. In the main event, Jimmy, to me, looked overtrained and then used up in the 11th (his energy just appeared to abandon him). But even scoring 10-7 Shields in that round, I still had Jimmy sailing into port easily, winning 114-111. I've been around. I know what a fight looks like. I thought he won. Still, Jackie K. was right when Johnny said what he said about his son: It was a fun fight to watch.
I thought the lighting failure did Jimmy no favors. It allowed Shields to not only catch a breath (he was receiving a lot of body blows all night) but also return his mindset to the positive one he displayed in the first couple rounds before Lange quit trying to box and took it to him inside. Jimmy was very effective with that attack and Shields began to just ride out rounds, aside for the periodic flurry, and was teetering on survival mode. He caught a reprieve with the unscheduled break in the action, but I don't think he won the fight.
p.s. -- It was great sitting ringside again, working with Digital and the Fight Doctor. Thank you for having me as your guest.
-- John Scheinman
Hi John,
Do you really think Jimmy won 9 of 12 rounds?
John Jimmy lost the 1st, 2nd, 9th, 10th and 11th rounds. The 11th was a 10 - 7 round for Shields. Jimmy was winning the 9th round until the lights went out but not by as much as Shields won the 9th after the lights came back on.
John,I agree that JL did not get the credit he deserved for the body work he did.Also I do think shields was ready to go when Vepco came to collect.that being said,bad luck is bad luck,and a 10-7 round is hard to overcome in a competative fight.That was a nightmare of a round,and it cost him the fight.Winning the 12 showed alot of guts by JL.I dont think is is out of the question that he won 9 0f 12,but close.I had it a draw.4 point margin for shields was a different fight than I was watching.very interested in the rematch.any word on that?The overtrained theary is interesting bc jl looked flat.What where his post fight comments gary/much more interested in his than his fathers borderline turncoat recap
Turncoat recap
You people are not stupid your just ignorant to the facts.
Think about what pappa Lange said and then think about the affect it's had on all of you.
You people really don't know anything about reverse Psychology.
To the person that thought Jimmy won 9 out of 12 rounds please tell us what rounds you thought Shields won. We know Shields won the 11th so what are the 2 other rounds?
I gave Chase the first two rounds, and concurred with Steinman that round 11 was 10-7. There were perhaps three other rounds I could have seen going either way, including the "lights out" round where Chase came back strong after the break.
That being said, I still can't see where all three judges had Chase four points ahead.
Johnny Lange aint got a bad bone in his body! come on..everyone knows that...pm
Gary , anyway when someone goes ahead and badmouths someonelse on here (similar to the way they do johnny)they would have to put their name? Cause im really curious to whos doing all the talking.. PM
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